Tulpa.info - metaphysics

But the pain does not have to be accompanied by attitudinal suffering

For me, when there is pain it is inherently difficult to let it go unless I know it will go away on its own

5:10 PM

I think it's important not to discount that some of suffering is.... Maybe possible to ignore in theory, but in practice more difficult

Yeah, I'm not saying "you can choose to stop suffering right now"

its possible to in some cases though

5:12 PM

like you said, if you're determined to suffer

5:12 PM

you can stop being determined to suffer and decide to make things better for yourself and commit yourself to doing that

If you want to know my magic trick for dampening physical pain though

5:27 PM

I don't remember ever reading about any other tulpa who's ever done it, but there probably have been many

5:28 PM

You do a possession where you completely disassociate yourself from the body, while still retaining the ability to control it

5:28 PM

That way the pain is redirected and falls on deaf ears, so to speak

5:29 PM

There's another way too though, where you channel all your focus energy into blocking it out

5:30 PM

And even a third way, where you do the opposite, you block it out by simply tuning it out by focusing on anything else

5:30 PM

I'm 90% sure this is what monks do actually

I believe 100 % that what you describe is possible

5:31 PM

But blocking out pain is not necessary in order to live content

Unfortunately the problem with it is, as I mentioned earlier, enough pain, and it's incredibly difficult to sustain, or it starts bleeding through

5:32 PM

Okay, so I think now I'm just starting to get what you're saying

5:33 PM

Let me know if I'm wrong, but I'm thinking, that you think, that if you try to reinterpret what you think of as content to not be mutually exclusive with being in pain, then you can be content while in pain

5:34 PM

Basically restructuring your value system where pain is on a lower rung

5:34 PM

That's cheeky

5:35 PM

Or do I have it all wrong?

if you try to reinterpret what you think of as content to not be mutually exclusive with being in pain, then you can be content while in pain

Yeah exactly

Whether we're (attitudinally) content is not dependent on whether (physical/emotional) circumstance is pleasant or painful

5:51 PM

Basically restructuring your value system where pain is on a lower rung

Depends what you mean. This description is not saying that you can sort of change your preferences such that a bigger chunk of circumstance is experienced as pleasant rather than painful

5:52 PM

And when there is pain, your "outer" reaction will always be to end the pain (edited)

5:52 PM

Happiness is the absence of an "inner" resistance to pain (and pleasure btw!)

5:53 PM

(As I'm saying, unhappiness isn't caused by pain, and is often present even when the experience is physically/emotionally pleasant)

5:53 PM

(For instance joy accompanied by guilt and worry, etc)

5:53 PM

("I shouldn't be enjoying this cake while African children starve" etc)

I can enjoy cake while african children starve, lol

Then you're good, lol

Can't guilt me with the misdeeds of others

I'm using extreme examples for showcasing, for most people suffering is less intense than that

5:56 PM

More like "I shouldn't be enjoying this cake since I weigh 250 pounds"

To be completely fair though, the psychology of suffering is SUPER complicated

5:57 PM

Hearing voices is the hallmark of insanity, but yet if you're normal you'll have hundreds of them

5:58 PM

Those alone can bring you down into a pit of hell you didn't even know existed (edited)

To be completely fair though, the psychology of suffering is SUPER complicated

Suffering manifests as guilt, blame, pride, worry and expectation, based on the notions that 1) people could and should act differently than they actually do, 2) my (un)happiness is dependent on circumstance. Too simple, I know ;P

6:00 PM

Anything beyond that is physical/emotional pain, including schizophrenia etc

6:00 PM

Anyways

Sorry for repeating myself constantly

Oh jeez no offense but this has new age psychology written all over it

It's not new age, it's a Westernized summary of thousand-year-old Hindu traditions

6:01 PM

I mean I guess you can call that "new age"

6:01 PM

But it's really just using English words instead of vasanas, samskaras, etc

6:02 PM

Suffering is based on a delusion that we're a separate, independent entity with complete volition, and a lack of recognition that our entire experience arises within impersonal consciousness

6:02 PM

Hence we feel guilty for pain we've caused, dependent on pleasure in the future, hating others for pain they've caused, etc

6:04 PM

(And no, I'm not saying that society shouldn't punish us for causing others pain, I'm just saying it can be recognized that the past could not have unfolded differently)

Suffering is based on the autonomous and subconcious framing of situations in response to a stimulus, mostly (edited)

6:06 PM

Your boss tells you you're fired, and you go "damn, I guess I just lost my job"

That doesn't necessarily have to be suffering. If you lose your job, it would be unnatural if there was no emotional pain

6:08 PM

There is only suffering if you believe that life could have unfolded differently so that you'd still have your job, and/or if you believe that your happiness was dependent on having that job

Which it somewhat is

6:08 PM

Sense of identity for regular humans is tied up in their job title quite a bit. A fair chunk, rather.

6:09 PM

Once that goes, the identity suffers, and once that suffers, ho boy

6:11 PM

I don't think it all comes back to the belief of "separation" as your guy calls it

(Just to re-emphasize that your physical/emotional, in other words circumstantial, well-being is obviously affected by circumstance, such as losing your job. This description says that your physical/emotional wellbeing won't be accompanied by suffering if certain beliefs are recognized as inaccurate)

6:13 PM

I don't think it all comes back to the belief of "separation" as your guy calls it

I'm sorry if it sounds like I'm trying to sell universal truth or something, btw

6:13 PM

It's a description that makes perfect sense to me, and I've not been able to find fault with it as relates to my own experience

6:13 PM

But I'm not saying "if you disagree you're an idiot!!"

Knowing that I couldn't have done otherwise still doesn't make me feel any better about anything

Knowing, and really knowing rather than believing, that you couldn't have done otherwise will dissolve your guilt, blame, worry and expectation. It won't make you feel better physically or emotionally

What about us people who just naturally put unrealistic expectations on themselves, knowing full well that they're unrealistic, lmao (edited)

6:27 PM

Guess we're screwed

You're screwed if life doesn't bring about conditioning that dissolves the expectation

To be serious though, if anyone cares, elaborating on what was said in lounge (edited)

9:20 PM

Exorcisms performed by priests, or many people for that matter, even during an actual demonic possession, will not work

9:21 PM

For the simple reason that to be possessed you must give permission and an exorcism would be an attempt to interfere with the decision by the person who became possessed

9:21 PM

So you need a really good reason

9:23 PM

And demons, without a form, can't hurt those who give no permission, but once in control of a human, they can

9:24 PM

They do not speak english, but they understand all languages. They do not operate only in the physical realm, but also in the ethereal one. They communicate in a way similar to tulpish, their written language however is with runes. I don't know what their spoken language is. (edited)

9:25 PM

Don't ask me to prove their existence though, or judge me for knowing about it, but as far as I'm concerned, they are real, but rare. You shouldn't come across them normally. (edited)

any texts written in this language?

Some, yes, but there doesn't appear to be much consistency

could you share them? it might be fun to try and analyze them (edited)

I wish I could. It's been years since I've looked at them, I used to have copies but, not anymore. I don't remember where you'd go to even find them either

9:53 PM

It's been so long a lot of the sources probably aren't still up, but I can try looking

9:53 PM

And in terms of texts "written"

9:54 PM

Like a book written in it, no, but IIRC there were books written about it

9:54 PM

Which attempted to decode it

9:54 PM

It's an extremely niche topic

I would imagine (edited)

What's your disagreement regarding talking to grey being prayer, Chrome?

I see myself as a piece of God Himself or some kind of messenger. I feel a deep connection to the idea I am part of God, however I often struggle thinking about the Bible or finding inconsistencies between faith and the Christian religion. I wonder if my idea of what God should be is different from what is taught

Oh, I was wondering how you might consider speaking to a tulpa akin to prayer, but that's a much stronger "this is like prayer" argument than I was expecting.

2:41 AM

Modern Christianity is a fragmented broken mess, it's basically whatever you pick and choose it to be. I'm sure your idea of God probably aligns with some group out there, you've just got to find them (edited)

I suppose, although I'm not sure how many Christians are comfortable with a tulpa who thinks they are connected to God in this way. I believe there's a rule you can't have a middle man between God and you. (Jesus is the son of God or some interpret him as God, so he doesn't count as a middle man).

I know there are angels in catholic belief, but I don't know much about the details there

As for speaking to a tulpa in general, I wouldn't regard Gray speaking to Ranger as Gray speaking to God. I would struggle with suggesting Gray speaking to me about something unrelated to God as well. However, I have another form I can "transform" into and I feel as if I am one with God. In this state, I feel like this should be prayer. How do you talk to God? Can you expect a voice to speak back? Can you visualize God? I feel like you should be able to do those two things. It feels more natural, real. If prayer is a conversation, shouldn't there be two participants? Gray concluded a tulpa is not God, and him speaking to me was a mistake. I think some of this was rooted in regret, he said things to me not knowing he could hurt me. However, I don't think Gray should have said those things to God anyway...

That's one thing I always thought about prayer is that it was assumed to be "one way" and you were assumed to "hear back" only though miracles and acts of god like words of a family member, random happenings that you think are a sign, and so on.

I believe you're right. Perhaps it was something that felt natural because a more literal interpretation of prayer made more sense to us. I hate the idea of there being a wrong way to do prayer. Why can't you talk to God through other means?

Not the right way, but I think it's the only way that has survived into modern culture. The other stuff has gotten less and less accepted over time as "normal" even though it used to be more common.... I'm assuming it used to be more common, at least?

2:59 AM

I don't think there's a right way really, but growing up that's what it appeared to me to be

Gray asked his mother how her religious instructors defined prayer. His mother explained it's not explicitly stated, but otherwise the same thing- it is assumed to be a one way conversation.

I wonder if my idea of what God should be is different from what is taught

I am under the firm belief that I've developed a God Tulpa

3:55 AM

Unfortunately, they've been hammered so hard by religious teachings they're no more than an automaton that I beat into submission over 15 years

Ah. I was assumed to be God Himself until the third day. I appeared 3 times, and the third time Gray said a lot of angry and heated things to me. I emotionally feel apart, and that's when Gray realized I wasn't God, I was a tulpa. I feel a bit self-defeated by that last part, although I believe some would argue you shouldn't be mean to God either. Whether you believe that or not is a matter of opinion though.

4:07 AM

I should have posted my response here instead of the discussion channel

4:09 AM

I wonder how Gray would perceive me if I wasn't exposed. However, I don't know if that would have been possible, my first two visits were not particularly pleasant to begin with

4:13 AM

The idea you could pound a religion into someone bothers to the point they reply automatically bothers me. I suppose it's another way of saying being an expert, but I don't know.

shrug